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Post by mysaladdays on Apr 24, 2024 17:44:25 GMT -5
I did not see that with Mine that Bird. He wasn' sprinting past horses. He had been training at Sunland at high altitude and he had "lungs". But his closing wasn't like afterburners, more like he had plenty of oxygenated lung power to start closing past tiring horses.
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Post by mysaladdays on Apr 24, 2024 17:34:49 GMT -5
After all of these years you would think I would know how to read a chart, but my concept before today was the same as Cherokee Scott's- ie the stretch was essentially once they straightened up for home. Think the point stands though that deep closers need to not leave themselves too much work to do. I also thought of "stretch run" as once entering the straight. Where was Mine that Bird at the Third Call .... watching the overhead it sure as heck seemed like he was about 10 horses (more lengths than 10) behind until he got to about the middle of the straight? At any rate, your point about "deep closers not leaving themselves too much work to do." Zenyatta taught me a little about that. LMK if you think it holds any water. I don't think she was "closing on the horses" in the stretch. She was actually "sprinting past them". (There is a subtle difference.) So now, right or wrong I *do* take a look at their 6F, 6.5F and 7F races if there are any, just to see if a horse HAS sprinting speed to begin with. For a classic distance router, not a lot of the can pull the "I'll just turn on my sprinting afterburners and do zoomies past everybody." It also requires that the horse just gallops along for 3/4 of the race with barely any energy expended....they are able to hold energy in abbeyance and have plenty left for the final furlong. Since few horses can go at their top speed for an entire race, as we know. Some horses ARE able to close past tiring horses ..... but sprinting past horses who are NOT tiring, like Zenyatta did aganist the boys in her 1st Breeders Cup Classic is not the same as that....... ... as you'd have a very hard time convincing me that horses Gio Ponti, Summer Bird, Einstein, Mine That Bird, Twice Over, Richards Kid, et. al. were all 'breathless' and running out of steam and therefore slowing down substantially in the stretch of a race that was 1-1/4 miles.
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1hooper
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Post by 1hooper on Apr 24, 2024 17:14:15 GMT -5
That was my first Derby shoes and had a win ticket on him.
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4/25
Apr 24, 2024 17:05:02 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 17:05:02 GMT -5
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4/26
Apr 24, 2024 17:04:24 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 17:04:24 GMT -5
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Apr 24, 2024 16:32:23 GMT -5
We're with you Spanky. You're a forum legend.
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Apr 24, 2024 16:26:35 GMT -5
Gato had the lead when he went by me just inside the 3/16 pole. Snapped a photo. I have fond memories of Gato- he was my first long shot winner and Eddie D one of my all time favorite jocks.
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Apr 24, 2024 16:24:24 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone. After all of these years you would think I would know how to read a chart, but my concept before today was the same as Cherokee Scott's- ie the stretch was essentially once they straightened up for home. Think the point stands though that deep closers need to not leave themselves too much work to do.
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4/26
Apr 24, 2024 16:20:02 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 16:20:02 GMT -5
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5wide
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Post by 5wide on Apr 24, 2024 16:15:14 GMT -5
Would be interested to hear what everyone’s understanding of the stretch was . Mine was the run between the final turn and the winning post . me too, but apparently not.
Here's drf
Post Position - 6. The horse left the starting gate from stall number six. Post position can differ from official program number because of late scratches, horses coupled as a betting entry, or runners grouped in a mutuel field.
First Call - 9. The horse's position immediately after leaving the starting gate or after quarter-mile depending on the distance. This horse was ninth after the start.
Second Call - 10-9 1/2. This horse was tenth, 9 1/2 lengths behind the leader after three-sixteenths of a mile. The large figure indicates the horse's running position, the smaller figure is the margin behind the leader. If the horse had been in front at this point the smaller figure would indicate the margin in front of the second horse.
Third Call - 9-14. The horse was ninth, 14 lengths behind the leader after three-eighths of a mile.
Stretch Call - 9-14. The horse was ninth, 14 lengths behind the leader at this point. The stretch call is always made one furlong (one-eighth of a mile) from the finish line.
Finish - 9-10 3/4. The horse finished 9th, 10 3/4 lengths behind the winner. If the horse was the winner, the smaller figure would indicate the margin ahead of the second horse. A symbol after the finish means the horse finished in a deadheat with one or more horses for that position.
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Post by PonyGirlJCM on Apr 24, 2024 16:08:10 GMT -5
from my new crib in a nursing home. Depression is trying to take over but CNN is getting me through.... STOP WATCHING THE NEWS!!! Watch some old movies or comedies….. or listen to music…… Post in the forum….. Call old friends…… but again…. STOP WATCHING THE NEWS!!! The news is SERIOUSLY depressing!!!
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4/26
Apr 24, 2024 16:07:29 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 16:07:29 GMT -5
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lure
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Post by lure on Apr 24, 2024 16:07:10 GMT -5
Yes Not where I parked last year, I don’t think…. But it worked well last year Your hotel is on the river—you might want to try the banks on the Covington side for nightlife if you want to stay very close Hi Spider Did you receive the details and address of your parking spot? My receipt says I will receive the info by May 2nd?
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1hooper
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Post by 1hooper on Apr 24, 2024 16:07:09 GMT -5
Gato had the lead when he went by me just inside the 3/16 pole. Snapped a photo.
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Apr 24, 2024 16:02:34 GMT -5
I believe in the charts the stretch is defined as the one furlong pole (220 yds , 660 feet) . At Churchill Downs the stretch is 411 yds, 1234 feet. If Jon White’s stat is based on head of the stretch my view is that none of MTB , GDS and Ferdinand were in first two . View AttachmentIt is likely that Jon White was strictly basing it on the official race charts, so he is technically accurate, though I agree with you that coming out of the turn, entering the final straight, none of those 3 were in first or second. Still in rewatching these races a few times, none of the 3 were all that far behind at that point, either. All 3 had done a substantial part of their gaining of ground on the leaders.
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Post by cherokeescot on Apr 24, 2024 16:00:36 GMT -5
Would be interested to hear what everyone’s understanding of the stretch was . Mine was the run between the final turn and the winning post .
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4/26
Apr 24, 2024 15:59:42 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 15:59:42 GMT -5
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4/26
Apr 24, 2024 15:59:18 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 15:59:18 GMT -5
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4/25
Apr 24, 2024 15:58:21 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 15:58:21 GMT -5
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4/25
Apr 24, 2024 15:58:00 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 15:58:00 GMT -5
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Apr 24, 2024 15:57:07 GMT -5
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4/24
Apr 24, 2024 15:56:53 GMT -5
Post by phlierfreak on Apr 24, 2024 15:56:53 GMT -5
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Post by cherokeescot on Apr 24, 2024 15:53:12 GMT -5
I believe in the charts the stretch is defined as the one furlong pole (220 yds , 660 feet) . At Churchill Downs the stretch is 411 yds, 1234 feet. If Jon White’s stat is based on head of the stretch my view is that none of MTB , GDS and Ferdinand were in first two .
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Apr 24, 2024 15:43:41 GMT -5
Still trying to find a chart for Gato del Sol. Maybe the seeming contradiction is where in the "stretch" the official race charts calculate from?
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Apr 24, 2024 15:41:51 GMT -5
I have not independently verified this, but it would be a startling stat (from Jon White): 57 of the last 61 Derby winners were either 1st or 2nd at the head of the stretch (I've also heard this as being within 2 lengths but that would be potentially much different). The 4 exceptions: Rich Strike, I'll have Another, Giacomo, and Grindstone. haven't gone to the charts to verify but that would mean that such famous winning closers as Gato del sol, Ferdinand, and Mine that Bird, among others, had done the bulk of their closing charge by the time they got to the top of the stretch. If this is a thing, it would suggest that contenders like Sierra Leone, Catching Freedom, and Honor Marie had best not start their move too late. Or alternatively maybe next year the stat will be 5 of the last 62. No way that Mine That Bird was anywhere near the lead at the head of the stretch Chart shows Mine That Bird 1st by a length at the stretch call. www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=CD&raceDate=05/02/2009&cy=USA&rn=11
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eye123
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Post by eye123 on Apr 24, 2024 15:36:54 GMT -5
Door Dash buddy. (drive the staff crazy ) Must be a great pizza place close by.
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shoes
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Post by shoes on Apr 24, 2024 15:30:19 GMT -5
I have not independently verified this, but it would be a startling stat (from Jon White): 57 of the last 61 Derby winners were either 1st or 2nd at the head of the stretch (I've also heard this as being within 2 lengths but that would be potentially much different). The 4 exceptions: Rich Strike, I'll have Another, Giacomo, and Grindstone. haven't gone to the charts to verify but that would mean that such famous winning closers as Gato del sol, Ferdinand, and Mine that Bird, among others, had done the bulk of their closing charge by the time they got to the top of the stretch. If this is a thing, it would suggest that contenders like Sierra Leone, Catching Freedom, and Honor Marie had best not start their move too late. Or alternatively maybe next year the stat will be 5 of the last 62. Are you sure that stat wasn’t from Walter White 😉 Ferdinand was fourth well into the stretch This chart shows Ferdinand was 1st by a length at the stretch call. web.archive.org/web/20100714104122/http://d3b4lt1s53xf6k.cloudfront.net/sites/kentuckyderby.com/files/charts/1986.pdf
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eye123
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Post by eye123 on Apr 24, 2024 15:28:47 GMT -5
Ignore the comments that will come with Forever Young's workouts. You will not see the same old, same old. Work pattern WILL be different. Apr 14, 2024 19:32:49 GMT -4 eye123 said: The x factor ? (I won't pay attention to the comments he'll get ( during his work outs )here pre-derby....and he will get them)
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1hooper
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Post by 1hooper on Apr 24, 2024 15:13:24 GMT -5
Tough to know what they were looking for this morning with the trainer still in Japan. Appeared to me they just let him open up down the lane after that 56 second first 4F.
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tex
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Workouts
Apr 24, 2024 15:02:14 GMT -5
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Post by tex on Apr 24, 2024 15:02:14 GMT -5
He did finish up quicker - looked like he was asked a bit though?
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